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MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW 



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U.S.A. CENTER FOR MILITARY HISTORY 
CMH CATALOG NO. (NEIT-542) 

Interview with MG CLYDE VAUGHN 
Interviewer : 

US Army Center of Military History 
Interview Date: 12 February 2002 



FOR REFERENCE ONLY. NOT TO BE RELEASED OUTSIDE OF THE 
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE 
ORIGINATING AGENCY. 



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MG CLYDE VAUGHN - INTERVIEW 2 

[BEGIN SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE.] 

Interviewer: This is [Name Exempt B6] of the US Army 

Center of Military History. I am conducting an oral 
history interview with General Clyde Vaughn. Today's date 
is 12 February 2002, and the subject of the interview is 
the terrorist attack on the Pentagon on 11 September 2001. 

Sir, if you could tell me your full name, and 
position for the record? 

MG VAUGHN: Full name is Clyde A. Vaughn. I am the 

Deputy Director of Operations, Readiness and Mobilization 
and also the Deputy Director of Military Support for DOD 
within the Deputy Chief of Staff of the Army. 

interviewer: And you are conducting this interview 

voluntarily, sir? 

mg VAUGHN: Absolutely. 

Interviewer : Great. Could you briefly describe what 

your position entails, the responsibilities and -- 

MG VAUGHN: My position as the deputy to the director 

is pretty much the same responsibilities as the second man 
in the directorate. Obviously this is current ops. This 
is current operations for the Army, so in many instances 
we run -- well, in all instances, we run 24-hour-a-day 

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operations, and as far as a portfolio that's kept separate 
from the director, we don't do that. There are a couple 
of areas that we probably each concentrate a little 
heavier on, but basically I've got to be able to step in 
for him and be his second in almost everything he does . 

So the responsibilities are the same as he has, and that 
is providing the right kind of leadership over all the 
divisions within the directorate to encompass everything 
from operations and mobilization, the CAP, the watch for 
the Army, the directorate of military support, everything 
that the Army touches in current operations . 

interviewer: Okay. Would you describe what you were 

doing Tuesday morning, just sort of start with getting to 
work 

MG VAUGHN: Very interesting. During that time 

frame, we always start with a morning brief-off, that's 
called an O&I, and we traditionally get in here somewhere 
around 0530 in the morning. The first brief normally goes 
through General Chiarelli and myself, and then we'll take 
that brief upstairs to the DSCOPS of the Army, usually 
carried up there at either 6:30 or 7:00, depending on 
their schedule, and then normally we would go on from 

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there to the Chief of Staff of the Army if he was 
available and wanted the briefing that day, and then the 
briefing team would go on to SECARMY if he required the 
briefing. So that day, undoubtedly just like all the other 
days, started with a briefing down here early, from 
probably a ten or 12 man organization that we normally 
have it every day. 

Now, after that, and I would have to go back and look 
and see what my schedule consisted of, but I usually sign 
out the force protection message out to the field, and 
then I was scheduled -- the piece that I do know -- do 
remember quite vividly, is I was scheduled to sit in on 
the Reserve Forces Policy Board meeting for General 
Kensinger at the Army-Navy Country Club, and so sometime 
after the morning brief, I left here and went to the Army- 
Navy Country Club. 

I would say probably I arrived out there around 0800, 
and sat in on the opening sessions and the opening 
remarks . We were waiting at that time I think for 

to show up and the Assistant Secretary of the Army 
for Manpower Reserve Affairs. We were waiting for him to 
show up and deliver his remarks, and General Davis, Lt. 

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Gen. Davis, the Chief of the National Guard Bureau, came 
in the back of the room and motioned for myself and Lt . 
General Schultz to come out in the lobby. So, I went 
outside with him and he gave us the information then, the 
breaking news was that the towers , and I don ' t remember 
whether it was one tower or both, but I think at that time 
it was both, had been hit by an airplane or by airplanes. 

And so I called in here to talk to my exec who was at 
that time Lt. Col. [Name Exempt B6] , and he told me that 
General Chiarelli had already gone to the CAT floor, the 
CAT was being stood up, and I told him that I would be 
there quickly. So, from that point I just picked up my 
materials and went outside and got in the vehicle, and 
drove down Glebe Road for 395. I turned to go 395 north 
and was listening to the radio. At that time, of course, 
they had it on about the towers being struck and I 
remember thinking then that I was probably driving towards 
a target. If -- and, you know, it was pretty obvious that 
it was a terrorist incident because I do remember either 
earlier or at the time I turned on the radio that both 
towers had been struck, so it was definitely a terrorist 
action . 

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I remember very vividly there wasn ' t anything in the 
sky, and again, thinking about as I came up 395 and over 
the top of the hill, you know, somewhere down in there you 
think about what a target the Capitol would be. You know, 
that's kind of what you think when you come up 395. So, 
as I was going north on 395, I remember seeing an 
airplane, a liner, that to me it seemed a little bit out 
of, you know, out of sorts. It was - there was only one 
aircraft in the sky that I could see, and I didn't -- I 
didn't, of course, didn't hear anything else. And that 
aircraft from where I was coming up 395 at that time 
appeared to be in a straight line up over maybe the 
Georgetown area or something like that, and I watched it 
kind of bank slowly and head west, and then you're kind of 
down in a defilade area coming up 395, you can't see back 
to the left or the right. To jump ahead, I've always 
wondered it that was the plane that circled and come back 
around, and I’ve read different accounts that say that 
particular plane had actually done some kind of a right 
bank, and came on back and hit the Pentagon. But the one 
I saw was headed west and was not in a normal traffic 
pattern, and maybe, I don't know, maybe two or three 

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thousand feet high and kind of lumbering just a little 
bit. 

But as I came up 395, I got to the top of the hill 
where from that point you had a real good view of the 
Pentagon and the city, and for those who have come up 395 
you know exactly what I'm talking about, it's right on the 
top. And right as I got to the top of that hill, the 
hijacked airliner was out my left window, and there 
weren't very many people that were on the top of the hill. 

The highway was full of cars and vehicles, and so it 
was slow traffic, but the airliner -- you know, and it 
would be very hard, and I said I've never been able to 
pinpoint even driving in in the mornings exactly where 
that plane was, but it was probably, I mean it was very 
low, and it probably had to be in close proximity or over 
the top of the Navy Annex. 

It may have been even over Columbia Pike, but very, 
very close, very low, and there was no doubt instantly 
what was going on, because it was -- it must have just 
barely missed the Sheraton and the landing gears was up, I 
mean, there was no doubt it was on a -- that it was -- if 
anything, it was accelerating, and it was on a collision 

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course, it was aimed for the Pentagon. There was just no 
question at all. 

And I saw it, of course, you know, traffic had come 
to I mean a slammin' stop right then, even before it hit 
the Pentagon. I mean it slowed -- and from where I was I 
had probably as good a vantage point as you could have on 
395, and it appeared that it may hit short, I mean it was 
so close, and there's actually — your vantage point at 
some point as you come off the hill you're somewhat in a 
defilade there, your view gets a little obstructed by I 
think 29 where it turns and goes under 395. There's a 
little ramp in there, or an underpass, but I saw it track 
all the way in to the Pentagon and if I lost it at all it 
had to be just there -- but it happened so quick, as it 
closed on the Pentagon in the last couple of hundred feet, 
you know, and the resulting ball of flame and everything, 
and I'm just -- I’m not actually sure that I saw it hit 
the Pentagon thinking back. 

But, you know, it's -- I'd almost have to get out in 
the middle of traffic, stop, and just see whether I can 
see that or not. But I saw it all the way in and if I 

lost it at all it was just in the last split second before 

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it hit. 

From there I don't know. We may have, you know, 
during that time we may have moved a hundred foot and 
traffic was stopped, and I had trouble -- of all times I 
have had trouble with a particular brand of cellular phone 
that they had given General Chiarelli and I probably that 
week, and so we were trading out cellular phones and I 
didn't have my phone with me. And so there we were, and 
of course now -- and right -- there's people, you know, 
that are in disbelief, you know, all over. 

There was a young lady in a car next door to me, it 
was a hot day, and windows were down, and she was on her 
cell phone and so I yelled at her to see if I could borrow 
her cell phone real quick, and I called in here to AOC, 
into this office, and talked to a Major George Sterling at 
that time, and my first question I asked him, I said 
"George, are you all right?" and he said "yeah", I think 
he said that my exec, had already gone into the CAT 

and they were all in the CAT, opening the CAT up, and I 
said "You know that you've been hit by an airplane", and I 
think he said "Is that what happened?" Because, you know, 
there's many, many, many people that didn't find out for 

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some time it was an airplane. 

He said everybody down here was okay, and they were 
headed for the CAT. So I told him to tell General 
Chiarelli I was on top of the hill and I would be there as 
quickly as I could get in. 

So, I gave that cell phone back and by this time 
traffic had moved down the hill maybe another hundred 
yards or so, and so I pulled up and then there was a big 
traffic jam again, and I looked back in my rearview 
mirror, I was in a green Explorer, and I saw a policeman 
with his sirens going back, oh, back behind me a couple of 
hundred yards, and of course, traffic is stopped and 
stacked up, so I got out on 395, I pulled my vehicle as 
far over to the side as I could, and I got out and 
directed traffic over to the side until the policeman 
could come off the top of the hill. 

I guess what’s interesting about that, that is the 
policeman that hit the intersection first down there, that 
directed all the traffic for some time, and as we opened 
that lane up and he came by and I remember him on the 
speaker phone telling me thanks, and I fell in -- I 
jumped, my vehicle was still running, I jumped in behind 

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him, put the flashers on, and he and I went right through 
the traffic all the way down underneath the underpass, to 
the intersection where, if you would come out of the south 
parking lot like -- whether it's 27 or 29 -- I believe 
it's 27, I've been saying 29, but I believe it's 27, the 
one that goes down the west side of the building, right in 
front of the helicopter pad where the plane went in. 

We came off the hill, I followed him all the way down 
to that intersection, he pulled his car up real quick, and 
got out, and I pulled up right behind him and told him 
that I was, you know, that I need to park that car in 
there and I'd be going into the building. And so, he 
said, "Yes, just pull off on the grass right behind that 
barricade." So in many pictures for the next 24 hours 
there's a green Explorer sitting there on that corner 
where all the emergency vehicles and everything were. I 
pulled up as close as I could to the retainer there on the 
grass, and by that time he was moving traffic on down from 
the Pentagon. 

When I got out there on that corner, I remembered 
seeing General Mahan, and now when I was kind of thinking, 
you know, I was looking at where the plane hit and I was 

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also kind of noticing, you know, who I'd seen that I knew, 
especially general officers. So Mahan -- I saw General 
Mahan, I headed on down, walking and running down the road 
and there were people -- and I remembered when the plane 
went in to hit the Pentagon one of the offices that I knew 
was right close to that, to the heliport, was General 
Glenn Webster's, Fuzzy Webster's. I remember thinking, 
that his office had to be hit, because I'd been in his 
office several times, and I knew the heliport was real 
close in there right out that window. So I was real-- you 
know, I thought, boy that had to hit Training, which is 
underneath the DCSOPS. 

So, as I came on down -- now on foot- -as I came down 
the road that's when I saw all kinds of people being 
helped. You know, that's where we talk about the number 
of real heroes that there were, they were helping people, 
you know, comforting them and taking care of them, and 
there were some grossly burned people. But they all had 
people all over them, and I saw Glenn Webster out on the 
grass over an individual then, so I knew he was okay. And 
at -- of course, you know, it just happened, I don't 

really know how long it -- it just seems like a couple of 

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minutes to get off the top of the hill, but it may have 
been, you know, as much as ten minutes. 

I don't have any idea whether it was five or ten. 
Simply to, you know, make a call from the top of the hill, 
to pull down, stop, you know, get the policeman down the 
hill, pull in behind him took probably ten minutes. There 
wasn't any, obviously there wasn't any firefighting 
equipment or anything yet, everything was -- it was really 
going. I mean, the building was engulfed in a big ball of 
flame. And a lot of heroes out there on that grass. And 
I often I wondered about the people who came out that way, 
because that's where the fire was, and that's where the 
airplane went in, but there were people that came out of 
entrances and went out the direction of the fire, were out 
there in a hurry, and with all the seriously hurt people 
out on that side of the building. 

And so I went around the building, and of course, 
especially after the towers, I thought "Boy, this is kind 
of weird. Here we are going into the building. " You 
know, the towers had been just hit by a couple of planes, 
and I wondered if there's, like a lot of people, you 
wonder if there's another one coming. 

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But I went around the building, and came in a back 
door. I went to the Mall entrance, they had the Mall 
entrance shut down. They weren't allowing anyone in -- 
they were allowing people to leave. There were people 
leaving the building, and they weren't allowing anybody to 
come into the building. So I didn't waste any effort 
trying to get in there. 

I went on around to where I knew, where I was fairly 
sure some side-doors would be open on the Pentagon, and 
back between, as you round the building between the Mall 
and the River entrance, there's a side door there, which 
you take the steps down, and it was open between the 7 th 
and 8 th corridor. And I came in that way and came on down 
here to the OPS center. I went in to the AOC and, of 
course, the CAT was stood up and told General Chiarelli I 
was there, and what I'd seen happen, and accounted for a 
couple of the general officers that I'd seen up to that 
point, and then of course, we started from there. The 
first big task, obviously, was to get a count on how many 
people were missing on the Army staff. And so we were 
charged off in that direction. He told me he really 
wanted me to concentrate on that piece, it's the most 

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critical, you know, piece of it. 

So, I got ahold of Major [Name Exempt B6] and we 

organized, what we had to do, how we would count the 

[Note: not clear here] section and we went to work. I 
announced it on the CAT floor to, you know, for each 
section now to start that process of figuring out who was 
missing and who was not, and what their impressions were 
of all that. 

Somewhere along the line I was into the OPs Center, 
or into the Army watch, the watch is separate, you know, 
that goes all the time, twenty-four watch with watch 
officers, and it's got all the COMs for the senior 
leadership and it hooks us up with the rest of the world. 

I went in there to check in from time to time, and I 
think, I either -- I don't remember whether I had Glenn 
Webster's number or he called in on his cell phone. He 
may have borrowed somebody's cell phone and called in to 
the watch, and I took the call. I told him I had seen 
him, I knew he was okay, and told him where to come and 
I'd get him into the CAT, and then we went out the back 
door a little later and met him and brought him on into 
the CAT. 

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Then, we were in CAT operations for I don't know how 
many consecutive days. General Chiarelli had the -- I 
think I went home the first night, I don't know, 1:30 or 
2:00 o'clock. General Kensinger, who was in the office 
where our two DCSOPS personnel were killed, I remember 
everything that he had in there had disappeared, and so he 
didn't have keys to the car or anything else, and so he 
lives at Belvoir and I took him home that night. He and I 
walked out, I don't know, maybe 1:00 or 1:30 in the 
morning to go home for a few hours and get some clothes 
on, and get back in here and try to get, and continue. 

But we went out, and of course, my vehicle was still out 
where we left it, and there were firemen and emergency 
workers and everybody else spread out, you know, all over 
that piece of terrain, so probably my vehicle was the last 
civilian vehicle left up there. 

Then we came back . I don ' t know when we came back the 
next day. We divided up and General Chiarelli took the 
days and I took the nights for some, I don't know, 38 or 
440 days, you know, in a row until we started on some kind 
of a shift section and we got some other GOs . We had some 
-- obviously we had a lot of officers that didn't have 

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offices because of the smoke and water damage or it was 
gone completely, so several of those general officers 
threw in and helped us early on, especially during the day 
shift when we had to get all the briefings together and 
what not, or Hardy and Eikenberry, Webster, were all in 
here . 

I worked the night shift for, I don't know, probably 
some 40 days, and then we finally got down to where we had 
a couple of other general officers help us and we could 
get back to some kind of a schedule. 

Interviewer: Okay. How much of the CAT was already 

stood up? I know that General Chiarelli had an exercise 
planned for a couple of days later. 

MG VAUGHN: Yeah. There were representatives at that 

time, I think probably from all the Staff, and that was 
really -- I don't know how deep that was in terms of one 
or two shifts, and that CAT, because we go through a 
series of exercises and continual identification, and you 
pull on the rest of the staff to stand up to CAT. Because 
we had been doing that I think the right people assembled 
real quickly. They knew exactly where to go to, and the 
CAT was, by the time I got here, I think people had 

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automatically reported to it down here, and it appeared to 
have someone in every seat, and like I said earlier, I 
think, and actually there were a number of other people, 
high-ranking officers that are looking for what's going 
on, and don't really have any other place to go and work. 
They weren't going to leave the building, so they went to 
the ops site, which is the hub for any crisis. 

So, it appeared that the full CAT was there. To me, 

I think at that time that we were also moving to make sure 
that it had 24-hour capabilities, and probably if you talk 
to him, later - you know, it takes three shifts, you know, 
to do this thing for as long as we've done it now, which 
is some five -- October, November, December, January, 
February -- five months now. So in order to give anybody 
any time down at all it takes three shifts to keep going 
24 hours a day, and that's where we're at now. But we 
weren't there for a long time. I took awhile to make that 
happen . 

Interviewer: Was there any concern early on about 

needing to evacuate the building or the center, or whether 
you're -- 

MG VAUGHN: I think that, again, we had people 

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monitoring the fire, and the smoke, and where it was. We 
knew where it was contained or where it was, and there was 
probably more smell down here than there was smoke. At 
some time or other there got to be a concern with the 
potential for water, because much of our stuff, our wiring 
and what not, is in the floor, and there was some concern, 
and we started tracking where the water was. But I think 
that although it wasn't real apparent, you know, whether 
or not there were other attacks scheduled, we did know of 
the one coming in from Pennsylvania. 

Interviewer: So you were aware of that -- 

MG VAUGHN: We were aware of that because of the 
phone calls and the fact that the watch was on line during 
that process, and so there was an effort, or we did move 
or make a' move to move some people to site R. But I think 
that there was, you know, after we got over the initial 
three or four or five, three or four hours, there was more 
of an attempt, I think, to make sure that the Army 
Operations Center stayed up and running and connected from 
here. There was more of an attempt to do that, than there 
was action to actually move the OPs Center. 



We did put our liaison 




who is the 



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exercise director for the OPs center, and it worked a 
couple of actions on, if for some reason we had to vacate 
the OPs Center, which site would be go to short of not 
including site R, and there are a couple of locations here 
fairly close. Not anything to do with at that time, with 
the fire but more with, again, with water. If we actually 
lost our COMs capability, where would we transfer that 
kind of ? seat to ? [Note: term not clear on tape] . 

But, again, the thrust especially after probably the 
first eight or ten hours was simply to stay in here. I 
don't recall when we knew, and you know, it took some 
time, to have the fire put out, but I don't recall when we 
knew that water wasn't going to be an issue either, but 
there was a real thrust to keep the Operations Center open 
the whole time. 

interviewer: Did you get overloaded with people down 

here 

MG VAUGHN: I don't know that I'd call it overloaded, 

and I don't know that I've ever considered it as 
overloaded. I do know, you know, during an emergency the 
CAT is the place, and the AOC is the place that people 
will migrate. We had a lot of people in here by 

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necessity, and I think that's just part of operational 
reality on something like this, that that's going to 
happen, so I don't -- I was certainly glad that we had 
some of the general officer help that we had in here 
because there was a lot of different actions all at the 
same time going on, and it was good to have, again, the 
ones that, you know, that I recounted to you. 

Awhile ago between 

it was good to have them here. 

Interviewer: Because they could make decisions or -- 

MG VAUGHN: Because they could help take actions, 

take a larger action. It's just like the compilation of 
the status, you know, when all the information brief where 
we're at that had to be compiled and go together, and 
really fell in with that, and 
gave us some relief on shifts. They all just pulled 
together and did what they could for the first three or 
four or five days. 

Interviewer: Very specific kind of detail question, 

but how did you get the woman's phone? Did you get out of 
your Explorer or -- 

MG VAUGHN: I sure did. I rolled down my -- I have 

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electric windows on my Explorer, and she was talking, and 
I rolled down, just rolled down the window and yelled at 
her, asked if I could borrow her phone, and of course, I 
was in uniform, and she said sure, she was still in shock. 
I just said -- I told her is "Ma'am, I need to call in to 
that building right now. Could I borrow your phone?" 

Interviewer: For somebody writing about, sort of the 

history of the Army dealing with the attack on the 
Pentagon and what it spawned, what's significant about the 
AOC operations? That is, we know what goes on in the AOC 
in general, but is there some impression or perspective 
that you would want somebody writing about this to know, 
that they might not pick up from the normal course of 
research? 

MG VAUGHN: It's a very good question, because I 

think, and again we say AOC, the Army Operations Center 
goes all the time, every day, whether there's -- and, of 
course, there's crises around the world, but what made 
this one spectacular on the front end, is that one of the 
worst things you have to deal with is the mass casualty 
event. And it's hard enough thinking about dealing with 

that, you know, when its some other place, but we had the 

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worst situation here. We had a mass casualty event on our 
own headquarters, and so we were going to end up in the 
crisis response, in the consequence management mode and 
actually in an operational execution mode, you know, all 
at one time. 

CATs, by their very nature, are to deal with crises, 
and every command stands them up. But I think that, 
again, what made this one really, really spectacular on 
the front end was the fact that we got hit and had to deal 
with the immediacy of who we lost, accounting for all 
those people, and putting together the next phases of 
dealing with all of that. 

For a long time our number one priority, was locating 
and identifying and taking care of, either in a hospital, 
or there were names of our soldiers and civilians, and you 
know, as far as something that is probably our thinking 
here will be, on this crisis action team, especially as 
long as we've run it now, in looking back we would 
probably hot bed this thing at a little higher level. And 
what I'm saying by that is normally day to day if you walk 
by the CAT there wouldn't be anybody in there. Of course, 
we exercise it from time to time and we have staff 

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training, but you know, you'd have to go back and think 
well, maybe I need to structure this a little bit 
different, with augmentation units and drilling reservists 
and National Guardsmen that would actually hot bed this 
thing at a much higher level than what we were doing 
previously. 

Right now, for instance, in order for the Army to get 
back to doing its business plus doing all the daily crisis 
action business, and I don't know what the percentage is, 
but probably as much as 80 to 90 percent of that CAT is 
pulled by Army Reserve and National Guard soldiers, and 
doing a magnificent job, but that's probably one take- 
away. And, of course, for the Pentagon the other take- 
away is that it really stressed the importance of being 
able to account for all of your people. 

I think that what we saw is that for organizations 
that were predominantly military, that that came rather 
easy, and the answers were pretty quick. For those that 
were predominantly civilian, probably it wasn't embedded 
quite the same way. It was a little harder, you know, to 
get the actual numbers and names of people that were truly 
missing. 

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Interviewer: Is there anything I should have asked 

you? 

MG VAUGHN: No. You'll think of things. The pieces 

for the CAT, I think it's interesting, you know, as you 
look at how we changed you know, from phase to phase to 
phase, and there were lots of, you know, all the various 
pieces were going together at one time, that you know, 
priorities such as accounting for and taking care of 
people, you know, on the front end, to getting the 
requirements in from all the commands and then dealing 
with all the mobilization piece that followed on top of 
that, and then the actions in support of the war, so I 
mean there were a lot of phases that we moved through 
quickly. 

One of the big things that jumped out is the issue 
that they're still dealing with now, which is homeland 
security. And you know, when you deal with war plans and 

bids and documents there are -- there's a process 

for planning and validating and putting forces against 
particular plans, and so you just move quickly into that 
process. Here, because of the attack on this building, 
and then the follow-on immediate concerns of securing a 

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certain functions and facilities around the United States, 
such as chem sites and some of our key installations and a 
lot of critical infrastructure, there wasn't a plan to 
deal with that. 

And so, when you look at what the Army did, the Army 
MACOMs came in with their requests, and those were 
prioritized and filled here in OD by the G-3 or DCSOPS of 
the Army, as opposed to a CINC driving that process. The 
Service ended up reacting quickly in driving out those 
security forces. There was not a plan, there was not a 
TPFD and there was no forces for a sink in charge of what 
happened. And I say what happened, I don't mean the 
Pentagon, necessarily. I mean in charge of what was 
happening throughout the United States on the ground that 
had a force ready to go -- 

[END OF SIDE ONE, TAPE ONE; BEGIN SIDE TWO, TAPE ONE] 

MG VAUGHN: The big issue is exactly what they're 

dealing with right now, as a start-in to this CINC 
NORTHCOM situation, where there will be forces for what 
the plan is, with the thought that next time around there 
will be a structure that will deal with that. But the 
Services, and especially the Army, which has the great 

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land component, and the chem sites, especially the Army, 
we had to deal with that real quick. 

Interviewer: Busy time. 

MG VAUGHN: Yeah, it's hard to, you know, when it's 

all coming together here it's hard to look back and piece 
together all the various things that were going on. 

That's a good stud in itself. You know, all the documents 
that came out of here. Okay. 

Interviewer: I thank you for your time, sir. 

mg VAUGHN: Are you done? 

Interviewer: Yes, sir. 

mg VAUGHN: Well, you're most welcome. 

[TAPE TURNED OFF.] 



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